If no one looked outside the box, then nothing - including the bow and arrow - would have been invented. An open mind and curiosity are the ingredients to discovering something new.
Again, you are assuming something based on your current understanding of how the universe works. Nothing you see is as what you think it is. You have given everything you see all the meaning it has for you. Even our current Science is based on measurements made of our own doing. Time and again, some upstart discovers a new way of looking at "reality" and finding that some previous "assumption" is wrong. This is enough "evidence" that an open mind and curiosity are precursors to expanding our understanding. And that literally means there is no limit to what we can think about the universe. All "options" are on the table, whether you agree with them or not. "You could be right" is a better answer to someone's curiosity.
Let's try to understand each other. Are you suggesting the universe possibly is not alive and expanding? Does "all options" include there possibly not being an objective universe, but it all being in my mind whatever that may be?
The universe is alive and conscious. All options means that what we see of the universe is only a tiny fraction of what the universe is. Behavior is not the same as reality. Behavior is only what we can detect with our senses and equipment. Reality goes much deeper than that. Who you and I are is not the body or the mind, but your external senses and limited imagination only know it as such. Who you really are was never "born" nor will you ever "die." How's that for an option?
Seeing only a tiny fraction has nothing to do with knowing we are one humanity based on science showing us it's an expanding universe that's alive and evolving where each of us is the product of a 13.8 billion year process.
Much longer than 13.8 billion years, and at the same time, timeless. Our reality has nothing to do with the age of the Universe. Being aware that there is something about who we are that we are not told about is the beginning of becoming self-aware and truly free.
At the present time, Science is limited and fallible. Consciousness is universal, unlimited and infallible. I prefer to not ignore the reality of my true nature.
This is an odd conversation, where what you say doesn't relate to what I'm saying. (Watch where you Reply so it goes under what you are replying to.) Science needs to open its parameters to consciousness, but it's what people respect so its validation is valuable. You don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, where science is to be appreciated for how it deals with the objective world.
This fish-y story doesn't take into consideration that the human race could be imported on Earth from another planet in this or another galaxy. Or, mankind (and every distinct species) could have simply "shown up" out of an intention of Consciousness. There are many plausible, though not necessarily tenable, possibilities for the appearance of mankind on earth.
The Universe Story IS what's going on, even if we don't take it as our creation story, and perhaps there are other stories junior to that one, like from activity elsewhere in the universe, that are subsumed in it. Evolution is the name of the game going on all through the universe. But "could have simply 'shown up' out of an intention of Consciousness" I take issue with as not being anything explanatory, where the Universe Story is grounded in science..
My point is that "could have" is purely subjective. Who is to say that Consciousness cannot instantaneously make matter appear in any form? There are many stories of miraculous events, such as broken bones healing virtually instantly, to exclude any possibility of what constitutes "creation."
We need an ennobling sense of ourselves to move from being selfish creatures to being altruistic ones, and you can get that from the implications of what science has shown us. It's taking what is known and conjecturing meaning, not that meaning is provable. With the world in trouble, it's useful to contextualize humanity in a story you can do something about. Anything is possible, sort of, but why look so far outside the box for what doesn't serve any useful purpose? Pull everyone into the Universe Story, which fits with science, and it can positively affect the world, whether or not it's ultimately "true."
Every living thing on our planet can survive here because it evolved to survive in the Earth's environment. I don't think you can plop down a species from some other place, or create it whole cloth, and expect it to survive.
He said "I don't think." How about that? It's a valuable contribution to what we are looking at that could initiate speculation about atmospheres and whether things from one part of the universe could make it in another part. It invites conversation, not criticism.
The sentence “ in our new story we would be one human family” stuck out to me as a hopeful way to look ahead. As we are indeed all animals and can work together
Us humans are so privileged to to be capable of working together, and the new story gets you in a groove where you are grateful for that -- if you are out of poverty where you can think about anything except survival. We've got to become humanitarian, beyond where so many people have so little and so few have so much. Once we change our minds about money as the purpose of life, cooperation can become the basic way we relate.
Several colleagues are interested in the ideas I pursue. They too have a body of work that is quite daunting to those who are not accustomed to such orientations. Then again, you too have much on your plate as well.
Thank you for the link to Brian Swimme's The Third Story of the Universe discussion. It is right up my alley. I have thus sent him this link: https://www.threesology.org/
I sometimes feel pretty lonely in the space between where we've been and where we are going, and I wonder about your experience with the massive body of work you have. How does anyone deal with it? Do you have allies who even talk to you about it all?
Oh Ima, who could a person with such exquisite taste be? Fingers crossed it's not one of my children trying to give mom an extra boost. Tell me we don't even know each other and I can leave this most intelligent comment in place.
I knew there was a reason I didn't like eating fish!
If no one looked outside the box, then nothing - including the bow and arrow - would have been invented. An open mind and curiosity are the ingredients to discovering something new.
But it has to be consistent with the universe expanding and evolving.
Again, you are assuming something based on your current understanding of how the universe works. Nothing you see is as what you think it is. You have given everything you see all the meaning it has for you. Even our current Science is based on measurements made of our own doing. Time and again, some upstart discovers a new way of looking at "reality" and finding that some previous "assumption" is wrong. This is enough "evidence" that an open mind and curiosity are precursors to expanding our understanding. And that literally means there is no limit to what we can think about the universe. All "options" are on the table, whether you agree with them or not. "You could be right" is a better answer to someone's curiosity.
Let's try to understand each other. Are you suggesting the universe possibly is not alive and expanding? Does "all options" include there possibly not being an objective universe, but it all being in my mind whatever that may be?
The universe is alive and conscious. All options means that what we see of the universe is only a tiny fraction of what the universe is. Behavior is not the same as reality. Behavior is only what we can detect with our senses and equipment. Reality goes much deeper than that. Who you and I are is not the body or the mind, but your external senses and limited imagination only know it as such. Who you really are was never "born" nor will you ever "die." How's that for an option?
Seeing only a tiny fraction has nothing to do with knowing we are one humanity based on science showing us it's an expanding universe that's alive and evolving where each of us is the product of a 13.8 billion year process.
Much longer than 13.8 billion years, and at the same time, timeless. Our reality has nothing to do with the age of the Universe. Being aware that there is something about who we are that we are not told about is the beginning of becoming self-aware and truly free.
At the present time, Science is limited and fallible. Consciousness is universal, unlimited and infallible. I prefer to not ignore the reality of my true nature.
This is an odd conversation, where what you say doesn't relate to what I'm saying. (Watch where you Reply so it goes under what you are replying to.) Science needs to open its parameters to consciousness, but it's what people respect so its validation is valuable. You don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, where science is to be appreciated for how it deals with the objective world.
This fish-y story doesn't take into consideration that the human race could be imported on Earth from another planet in this or another galaxy. Or, mankind (and every distinct species) could have simply "shown up" out of an intention of Consciousness. There are many plausible, though not necessarily tenable, possibilities for the appearance of mankind on earth.
The Universe Story IS what's going on, even if we don't take it as our creation story, and perhaps there are other stories junior to that one, like from activity elsewhere in the universe, that are subsumed in it. Evolution is the name of the game going on all through the universe. But "could have simply 'shown up' out of an intention of Consciousness" I take issue with as not being anything explanatory, where the Universe Story is grounded in science..
My point is that "could have" is purely subjective. Who is to say that Consciousness cannot instantaneously make matter appear in any form? There are many stories of miraculous events, such as broken bones healing virtually instantly, to exclude any possibility of what constitutes "creation."
We need an ennobling sense of ourselves to move from being selfish creatures to being altruistic ones, and you can get that from the implications of what science has shown us. It's taking what is known and conjecturing meaning, not that meaning is provable. With the world in trouble, it's useful to contextualize humanity in a story you can do something about. Anything is possible, sort of, but why look so far outside the box for what doesn't serve any useful purpose? Pull everyone into the Universe Story, which fits with science, and it can positively affect the world, whether or not it's ultimately "true."
Every living thing on our planet can survive here because it evolved to survive in the Earth's environment. I don't think you can plop down a species from some other place, or create it whole cloth, and expect it to survive.
Your comment is based on what you think you know, not what is possible.
He said "I don't think." How about that? It's a valuable contribution to what we are looking at that could initiate speculation about atmospheres and whether things from one part of the universe could make it in another part. It invites conversation, not criticism.
The sentence “ in our new story we would be one human family” stuck out to me as a hopeful way to look ahead. As we are indeed all animals and can work together
Us humans are so privileged to to be capable of working together, and the new story gets you in a groove where you are grateful for that -- if you are out of poverty where you can think about anything except survival. We've got to become humanitarian, beyond where so many people have so little and so few have so much. Once we change our minds about money as the purpose of life, cooperation can become the basic way we relate.
Several colleagues are interested in the ideas I pursue. They too have a body of work that is quite daunting to those who are not accustomed to such orientations. Then again, you too have much on your plate as well.
Very interesting piece, thank you!!
Thank you for the link to Brian Swimme's The Third Story of the Universe discussion. It is right up my alley. I have thus sent him this link: https://www.threesology.org/
I sometimes feel pretty lonely in the space between where we've been and where we are going, and I wonder about your experience with the massive body of work you have. How does anyone deal with it? Do you have allies who even talk to you about it all?
Oh Ima, who could a person with such exquisite taste be? Fingers crossed it's not one of my children trying to give mom an extra boost. Tell me we don't even know each other and I can leave this most intelligent comment in place.